“Black Mirror” Creator Charlie Brooker on Remaking Reality

Charlie Brooker is known for many things, and depending on whom you ask, you might get a different answer. In England, where Brooker was born, you may hear about cult comedies The 11 O’Clock Show, Brass Eye, or Nathan Barley, which he wrote, or maybe Newswipe, where he satirizes current events, or the fictionalized reality show Dead Set about zombies attacking the Big Brother house. His masterpiece is Black Mirror, an anthology series that combines futuristic technology with the worst aspects of humanity. It started over 14 years ago on Channel 4 in the U.K., before migrating to Netflix in 2016. Now, in Season 7, the buzzy series has an episode for any mood you’re in. To my lights, “The National Anthem” (S1E1), “Nosedive” (S3E1), and “Common People” (S7E1) are personal favorites.

This latest season has more of Hollywood’s familiar faces with Chris O’Dowd, Rashida Jones, Akwagine, Issa Rae, and Paul Giamatti, the latter of which sees Giamatti’s character revisiting a past relationship by stepping inside old photos – a story unfolding like an ode to Dickens’ “A Christmas Carol.” Its finale gives fans a long-awaited sequel to the USS Callister (the first of which aired in S4, E1) with Cristin Milioti, Jimmi Simpson, and Jesse Plemmons returning – which Brooker tells The Credits he hoped would have become a limited series but the pandemic and following union strikes set it on a standalone course.

During a video call, we caught up with the multi-hyphenate talent and decided to do what any morally good person should do if they had 15 minutes with someone known for absolute genius satire: we messed with him. And of course, he took it in stride.

I was just assigned this interview, so I had to look up who you were on IMDB. It says you worked for the famous comedian Jimmy Carr on television show 8 out of 10 Cats as a program associate. Can you tell me exactly what is a program associate?

Oh my God. That was 2,000 years ago.

So you don’t remember what the job title entailed?

My background is in TV comedy in the UK, and I was part of a production company that was making all sorts of things. I’m not part of that company anymore, but they still make 8 out of 10 Cats, which is the huge panel show in the UK. I went on to do other things like presenting shows, and sort of ended up on air. Then I did other things like Newswipe and Weekly Wipe, where we had this character, Philomena Cunk, who interviewed experts and asked them stupid questions.

Similar to what I am doing now?

(Laughs) Yeah, with my comedy hat on, I had to do things like that [being a program associate] too.

We all start somewhere. Speaking of, as a journalist, I’m not supposed to make myself part of the story, but I do want to point out I paid The New York Times .25 cents to read a 2020 profile of you for research. Is that something you can reimburse?

Yeah, sure. Why? Because the article was so uninteresting?

No, it was good. It was about writing Black Mirror during COVID. I am asking so I don’t have to worry about claiming it later on my taxes.

Oh, I see. Yeah. Okay.

This next question is from a friend of mine, and he asks, Charlie, if you had to live in one Black Mirror episode for a year, which one would you pick?

That’s a no-brainer. If it’s for one year, it would be “San Junipero” [S3E4]. But maybe “Eulogy” [S7E5], where you can walk into old photographs. But I mean, “San Junipero” would be the obvious answer in a way because it’s a nostalgic playground. It’s basically Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, San Junipero.

Netflix told me this is Season 7 of Black Mirror. I watched all the episodes at 1.5x speed, of course, and I have a few questions. What should be the minimum amount of throw-up a man should experience after helping to end his wife’s life?

Oh, well, I’m in the metaphor, which is I’ve got a phobia about vomit and vomiting, genuinely. So I would say none. There should be no throw-up whatsoever. You should just get on with it, finish the job. And stop being such a wuss. (laughs) No, I don’t actually know [how much]. That episode started out very much as a comedy. That’s a classic Black Mirror sort of thing, is that you start to do something that’s an absurd premise, and then we see it through to the bitter end.

Now this, too, is a serious question. If you were only able to eat one dessert, would you choose a miso jam flavored chocolate bar or a chocolate mallow crème pie?

You know what, we made those miso jam chocolate bars for that episode [S7, E2, “Bête Noire”]. They had to be vegan, because I think Siena Kelly, who’s playing Maria, is vegan. And they were really f**king tasty. They made me one for my birthday. A giant one, like a cake size…it was like a chocolate cake to me.

Curious, what current reality would you want to change, and what would you want to change it to?

Oh, I mean, all of it. It would be great to just have any consensus on reality. It would be useful because it feels like the problem at the moment is that you can kind of choose your reality depending on your affiliations. But some people don’t seem to be actually that concerned about whether their reality is real. So, the flood of disinformation that we are being subjected to is only going to multiply. How can we hope to tackle climate change if people can’t agree on what reality is and what’s happening?  I find that terrifying. So I would make it so that there was one reality for everyone. I think that’s what I would try to do.

During the credits of episode 4 of this season, “Plaything,” a QR code appears, which I scanned. Now, every day, a copy of the book “A Clockwork Orange” arrives at my door with tiny pieces of paper in it. What do I need to be doing here?

(Laughs) So that’s supposed to take you to a game that you can download for free. We made the game from the episode, and it’s a game called Thronglets. And you can create, nurture, and care for a community, a colony of Thronglets. So I would recommend you do that. It won’t bite. And you can mistreat them at your leisure.

Which sci-fi author would you prefer to eulogize? Robert Heinlein, Arthur C. Clarke, or Isaac Asimov?

You know, I’m so badly, shockingly poorly read. I’ve read very little sci-fi. I have read an Isaac Asimov collection. I’ve read [H.M.] Hoover. I’ve read “The Stainless Steel Rat” by Harry Harrison and “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.” Most of my references come from the world of movies and television. So, I’d say I’d eulogize Rod Serling, the creator of The Twilight Zone. He’s clearly one, or the British author Nigel Kneale, who was a huge influence on Black Mirror. So lump them together and I’d eulogize the pair of them.

Here’s an easy one. Would you suggest that someone read Charles Dickens’ “A Christmas Carol?”

That’s why the character is called Carol. When we were talking about it originally, it was going to be that he [Paul Giamatti, as Phillip in “Eulogy”] was being led through like it was “A Christmas Carol.” And he was walking through moments in his life and seeing scenes play out. That was the original jumping off point, but then it became this thing, which is a lot more high tech, but also simpler and eerier in many ways, that everyone’s standing around, sort of frozen. But yeah, “A Christmas Carol” was a reference we were using when we were talking about it. That’s why the name Carol then just stuck.

“USS Callister: Into Infinity” is a terrific sequel written by you, Bisha Ali, William Bridges, and Bekka Bowling. My favorite scene is the floppy disc sequence between the characters played by Cristin Milioti and Jesse Plemons. It’s The Matrix meets Einstein-Rosen’s wormhole theory. 

Oh, thank you. The reason we made the sequel is that we genuinely love the characters. And it was something we were working on for a long time because it was originally going to be a limited series. Then the pandemic, the writer’s strike, and the actor’s strike got in the way, so we made it a one-off.

But I think Jesse and Cristin in that scene are just fantastic. It’s tricky because it’s them talking in a garage, and they’re holding their own against it, intercutting with this giant space battle going on. They have to hold your attention alongside that, and they absolutely do. That’s one of my favorite moments.

This question is equally important. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the highest. How much did you enjoy the movie Being John Malkovich?

Oh, God, you know what? I haven’t seen it since it first came out in the cinema. But yeah, I must say 10 because it’s one of those things I should include. I quite often reference Robocop and The Truman Show when I’m talking to people about films that have influenced Black Mirror. And that should definitely be up there as well because there’s a lot obviously there with the Herman’s Head or Inside Out ending we have with Callister. Being John Malkovich is a great example of the logical absurdity, the logical ramifications of an absurd situation. I’m a fan of those sort of head f**king things.

Before we let you go, is The Real Housewives your reality show guilty pleasure?

I can’t quite remember why that was chosen. I think at one point we were going to just make up our own parody version of something, and we were discussing what they would be watching on TV. And I think it turned out that both Bisha [Ali] and Bekka [Bowling] are unironic fans of Real Housewives. So it’s an absurd premise that we played straight.

You can stream all the episodes of Black Mirror on Netflix

Featured image: Charlie Brooker on the set of “Black Mirror.” Courtesy Netflix.