Behind the Brutal Ballet: Stunt Pro Jackson Spidell on Training Ana de Armas for “Ballerina”

Ana de Armas had some practice acting like a bad ass in 2021 when she appeared briefly as a CIA agent doing field work in Cuba in James Bond’s No Time to Die. But in the John Wick spin-off Ballerina, now in theaters, she takes the fighting to a whole other level as Eve, an orphaned dancer determined to avenge the death of her father no matter how many men, nearly every one them of a trained killer and twice her size, she has to beat up along the way.

To help prepare de Armas for the staged mayhem, producers enlisted stunt specialist Jackson Spidell of the 28Seven Action Design company, co-founded by Ballerina executive producer Chad Stahelski. A Michigan native, Spidell doubled for Keanu Reeves in the first John Wick, winning Taurus World Stunt Awards for that movie and for Captain America: Civil War. Deadpool 2, Avengers: Endgame, and other Marvel movies followed. On Ballerina, Spidell mainly served a supervisory role, but he did step into the fray himself a couple of times. “When they T-bone Ana’s car, I’m the guy who gets the ax to the face,” Spidell says wryly, “It got a good reaction at the advance screening.”

Speaking from his home in Los Angeles, Spidell talks about stamina, cat-and-mouse combat, and de Armas’s ability to flip in and out of warrior mode during the demanding Ballerina training sessions.

Eve head butts, she punches, she kicks, she stabs, she smacks opponents with pots and pans. Walk us through the process of turning Ana de Armas into this fierce Ruska Roma assassin.

Ana hit the ground running because she had dipped her toe into action before in No Time to Die, which is where I think she caught the eye of the Ballerina producers. Early on, we had conversations about how she perceived the character and what she wanted to pursue performance-wise.

So Ana had some input, but you’re still operating within the framework of the four previous John Wick movies, right?

Yeah. Having lived in the Wick universe for more than a decade now, we know the vocabulary and the style points we wanted to hit, but what we didn’t want was for people to watch Ballerina and go “That’s a female John Wick.” We wanted Ana to be her own character. And that meant giving her a different style.

How so?

Keanu’s been doing this kind of fight for a thousand years, and he’s experienced every kind of situation, whereas Eve is new to this world, so she’s going to falter. We wanted to play her character as someone who’s sort of learning everything on the go, who doesn’t have the experience that John Wick has, who has a vulnerability.

And the fight choreography plays into all that?

It’s like if you had a little sister, and she tried to fight me and four of my friends, how is she going to beat us? By cheating. By using your environment. “I’m not going to kick you in the knee, I’m going to grab this chair over here.” It’s like, “I’m small, you’re big,” so we really wanted to play it as a cat and mouse [situation] where Eve is just this really smart mouse.

You trained Ana at the 87eleven stunt company here in Los Angeles?

We trained at 87eleven for two months, then went to Prague and continued training. We had a blast working with Ana because she has a fire in her eyes. If she does a move and says, “How was that?” we might say, “It could be better.” Then she’ll be like “Okay, watch this.” Ana had bumps and bruises all the time, and she wore them like a badge of honor. And it’s funny because she could be so intense during the fight scenes, but as soon as you say “Cut,” she’ll be laughing and light. Ana is one of those actors who’s able to turn it on and off.

What would a typical training day look like?

Four or five hours a day, we’d go through the choreography or learn new judo techniques, practice reactions, and teach her to fall safely so she wouldn’t sprain a wrist or crack an elbow.

These fights look grueling but also very precise. How did you get Ana up to speed?

When we rehearse these fights, we break them down into parts. “Here’s the first section.” Rehearse that four or five times. “Okay, second section,” same thing. Then the third section, four or five times. Then we circle back. “Okay, here’s the first half.” And they’re like “What”!? Then the second half. By this time, they’re more or less broken. [slumping]. Then you say, “Now we’re gonna do the whole thing top to bottom.” That endurance is important because these are intricate fights. Halfway through filming, something might go wrong or someone forgets something, and you have to get right up and start from the beginning again. Over and over.

And the John Wick franchise is famous for its long takes.

That’s why you need to have stamina. Not only body stamina, but mental stamina, because once your body gets tired, the first thing that goes is your memory. It’s like dipping the same tea bag over and over in the water. After a while, nothing comes out, if that makes sense.

What specific fighting styles did you focus on?

We worked a lot with judo and Jiu-Jitsu, which have always been strongly shown in the Wick universe, along with traditional wrestling styles. We did a lot of gun training as well. Ana needed to get in close to people and use her elbows, so we used something called the CAR system.

What does CAR stand for?

Central Axis Relock. We trained Ana in the specialized gun system for the “Ice Bar” fight, which involved using rubber bullets.

There’s some swordplay in Ballerina as well, right?

We did work a little bit of that with Ana, but since the whole building was on fire during the sword-fighting scene, we decided, “This one’s going to be her double.” Cara Chooljian learned sword work for this movie and killed it. That’s actually one of my favorite scenes in the film, where “Eve” just goes ham on people with a sword.

You’ve doubled in the past for Keanu Reeves. Did that happen in Ballerina?

It did! Once we learned that Keanu was going to be in the movie with an expanded cameo when he fights with Eve, I put the [John Wick] suit back on. So yeah, I got to fight Ana and Cara, which was a lot of fun.

Before you started wearing the John Wick suit back in 2015, you made some DIY “Sampler” videos where you did backflips and fight moves. It’s very impressive.

Thank you.

How did you develop those stunt skills?

I grew up in a sports-oriented family, so I learned acrobatics in my backyard and did gymnastics at open gyms. Then I competed in martial arts across the United States and overseas. There was a generation above me who had moved into the stunt industry, so I migrated west. Through the open gyms in L.A., I met people who did stunts, and they’d mention upcoming projects, wondering, “Who’s a similar make and model to this actor who can do x, y, and z.?” One day, I got a random phone call from 87eleven asking if I wanted to audition as a double for Justin Chatwin in Dragonball Evolution. The rest is history.

From the World of John Wick: Ballerina is in theaters now.

Featured image: Ana de Armas as Eve in Ballerina. Photo Credit: Larry D. Horricks